CnoEvil

The BBC Monitor

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2 hours ago, plasticpenguin said:

Old Spendors. Can't remember what because it was donkeys years ago.

More appropriate was the LS50s, which was only about two years ago. They sounded really good but I never came close to saying: "Mmm... do I keep the PMCs or invest in the LS50s?"

No doubt all the BBC influenced monitors were good in their day, but I don't 'get' the appeal now, some 45-50 year on from the originals.

Were those 'Old Spendors' working to specification? Many people form the wrong impression by listening to tired speakers which are NOT performing to original specification.

Who said the LS50 was a BBC speaker? KEF would doubtless push the heritage angle since many in the Asian market place a lot of value on the  'BBC' tag. Unfortunatley that label is now being rather freely used to make sales. I didn't like the sound of them (after falling for all of the hype), and I lived with them for a while despite their appearance.

I keep falling for this story about loudspeaker design having leapt forwards enormously in recent years. I am coming to the conclusion that most people building loudspeakers don't know what a real musical instrument sounds like.

Edited by Birdbrain
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4 hours ago, Birdbrain said:

Were those 'Old Spendors' working to specification? Many people form the wrong impression by listening to tired speakers which are NOT performing to original specification.

Who said the LS50 was a BBC speaker? KEF would doubtless push the heritage angle since many in the Asian market place a lot of value on the  'BBC' tag. Unfortunatley that label is now being rather freely used to make sales. I didn't like the sound of them (after falling for all of the hype), and I lived with them for a while despite their appearance.

I keep falling for this story about loudspeaker design having leapt forwards enormously in recent years. I am coming to the conclusion that most people building loudspeakers don't know what a real musical instrument sounds like.

Never said that the LS50s was a BBC monitor. I said there were reviews that suggested the LS50s were influenced by...

As in this example:

"It is rare to find a loudspeaker that offers this combination of clarity and neutrality. For KEF's LS50 Anniversary Model to do so for a penny under $1500/pair makes it even more remarkable. This thoroughbred both shows a clean pair of heels to the venerable LS3/5a and, within its limits of dynamic range and bass extension, will provide Class A sound for those with small rooms. Recommended." 

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5 hours ago, tuga said:

Well, if you look at measurements of recent versions of old BBC speakers, which gauge a speaker's capacity to accurately (or faithfully) reproduce the recorded signal, you will see that they perform at least as well if not better in many aspects than a massive lot of the currently designed ones, PMCs included.

In fact, Stereophile's measurements of PMCs are far from exemplary (and there's criticism to the effectiveness of TLs which incidentally I agrre with).

They not be stunners from an aesthetic perspective, at least not the larger ones, but they are pretty good at putting the signal=recording=music out in the open.

Okay. However, anyone who knows me will confirm measurements and other paper specs mean nothing to me.

My response has always been: Stuff paper specs and let your ears decide. :)

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24 minutes ago, plasticpenguin said:

Okay. However, anyone who knows me will confirm measurements and other paper specs mean nothing to me.

My response has always been: Stuff paper specs and let your ears decide. :)

But your response means nothing to anyone but you, whilst measurements are repeatable and quantify specific aspects of performance in a universally recognizable way.

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Super Dealer

We haven’t had every BBC iteration here, by any means but the Harbeth/Spendors/Graham Audio versions I have heard have been pretty decent, obviously bass extension is limited and they are coloured but not  by any means unpleasant.

Keith

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4 hours ago, tuga said:

But your response means nothing to anyone but you, whilst measurements are repeatable and quantify specific aspects of performance in a universally recognizable way.

In all fairness, you don't buy a hi-fi on paper specs. Or perhaps you do.

You go for a good old demo, and if it's rank you move on to the next component. If it sounds right: Bingo!

I'm afraid to say, I am boring. I'm a rare breed who lets their lugs decide... not swayed by mumbo jumbo.

I like to equate hi-fi to cars: I recently drove a Subaru Impreza WRX. The paper specs knocks my Alfa way into touch. But a car to live with, the Subaru can't touch my Alfa.

Edited by plasticpenguin

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19 minutes ago, plasticpenguin said:

In all fairness, you don't buy a hi-fi on paper specs. Or perhaps you do.

You go for a good old demo, and if it's rank you move on to the next component. If it sounds right: Bingo!

I'm afraid to say, I am boring. I'm a rare breed who lets their lugs decide... not swayed by mumbo jumbo.

I like to equate hi-fi to cars: I recently drove a Subaru Impreza WRX. The paper specs knocks my Alfa way into touch. But a car to live with, the Subaru can't touch my Alfa.

I too like to equate audio to cars.

Theway I see it, the highest performance car will produce the best lap or special stage times and the higher-fi will retrieve further information from the support more accurately. A racing or rally driver doesn't care if the car looks good or is "fun" to drive.

I don't buy hi-fi on paper we either but use measurements for shortlisting.

Edited by tuga

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14 minutes ago, tuga said:

I too like to equate audio to cars.

Theway I see it, the highest performance car will produce the best lap or special stage times and the higher-fi will retrieve further information from the support more accurately. A racing or rally driver doesn't care if the car looks good or is "fun" to drive.

I don't buy hi-fi on paper we either but use measurements for shortlisting.

But then something designed to produce the fastest lap times on a circuit is likely to be hell to drive on normal roads.

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22 minutes ago, rabski said:

But then something designed to produce the fastest lap times on a circuit is likely to be hell to drive on normal roads.

Where do you see a hi-fi parallel of "normal roads"? Recording quality? I can't think of anything else.

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2 hours ago, tuga said:

Where do you see a hi-fi parallel of "normal roads"? Recording quality? I can't think of anything else.

Hint: Everyday use.

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9 hours ago, plasticpenguin said:

Hint: Everyday use.

Ah, you mean listening in the kitchen. Just buy a Bluetooth speaker and you're done.

No, the parallel does not make sense.

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10 minutes ago, tuga said:

Ah, you mean listening in the kitchen. Just buy a Bluetooth speaker and you're done.

No, the parallel does not make sense.

image.jpeg.4f42e4385a6121847d6344eefe8e4002.jpeg

:P

  • Haha 1

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Very 'off piste' for me but worth noting for a full history of the LS3/5a; I vaguely remember a friend of mine who dropped out of uni in the late 70s to work in the Hi Fi retail sector. He spent a short time selling speakers for a firm called RAM and I believe that they picked up the licence for LS3/5a when Chartwell went bust (some info can be found on the falcon acoustics website). RAM didn't fare much better than Chartwell and went bust themselves soon later. Lost contact with my Hi Fi mate at this point so if you're still around, Neil, how're you doing?

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Here's a paper about a Goodmans Maxim Loudspeaker ( a very small ls3/5 type speaker but not the BBC licensed version) written by Dudley Harwood from the research department, which sort of shows how the BBC thought about speakers: http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1965-09.pdf

I loved the Goodmans Maxim I had in the early 80s.

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We will be carrying out a comparison between the LS3/5A and LS5/9 plus possibly the BC1 at Lurch's bake off on November 18th, should be interesting.

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