George 47

Rip Off Audio

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something wrong with cable wars then?

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I think it's a direct question aimed at a specific claim. Cables, unfortunately, often fall into the realms of debate because the claims of some cannot be proven on paper for the measurists. 

But regardless, it's a discussion and a difference of opinion at worst. Not a war.

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6 minutes ago, MCRU said:

Its a thread about rip off audio NOT CABLES. It will now develop into a cable war cant you see that fella?

There is precious little we do not see.

Sometimes, that is unfortunate.

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To answer the questions: The measurements for the cables I brought (and I suspect 4 legs' cable)  were all 'normal' and classical theory would say, no problems. There were no impedance mismatches.

My two cables were the Nordost Frey and he MCRU Slic, both balanced.

For me, I had a preference, which is not surprising as that is why it was bought it,  for the Slic. The Slic cable gave me exactly what I wanted in that system and especially at home where I run a Pass Labs XP12 and XA30.8. 4 legs preference was for his cable. It was close in sound quality terms but different plusses and minuses. The Nordost was not ideal in this system but has worked in other systems. I agree with the basic point which is there were significant differences that were easy to hear between three good quality cables. Why? No idea but there it was. No pressure, no salesman, no philosophy to defend and I would have been happy with any outcome including I can' hear a difference. 

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2 minutes ago, George 47 said:

To answer the questions: The measurements for the cables I brought (and I suspect 4 legs' cable)  were all 'normal' and classical theory would say, no problems. There were no impedance mismatches.

My two cables were the Nordost Frey and he MCRU Slic, both balanced.

For me, I had a preference, which is not surprising as that is why it was bought it,  for the Slic. The Slic cable gave me exactly what I wanted in that system and especially at home where I run a Pass Labs XP12 and XA30.8. 4 legs preference was for his cable. It was close in sound quality terms but different plusses and minuses. The Nordost was not ideal in this system but has worked in other systems. I agree with the basic point which is there were significant differences that were easy to hear between three good quality cables. Why? No idea but there it was. No pressure, no salesman, no philosophy to defend and I would have been happy with any outcome including I can' hear a difference. 

Hi George,

is this Kevin your listening partner on this occasion?

Edited by MCRU

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One of the stated requirements for being a moderator on a site like this is an ability to see into the future.

We can see where this is potentially going, so please don't. Just don't.

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1 minute ago, rabski said:

One of the stated requirements for being a moderator on a site like this is an ability to see into the future.

We can see where this is potentially going, so please don't. Just don't.

Wise man!

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1 minute ago, MCRU said:

Hi George,

is this Kevin your listening partner on this occasion?

I went round to Kevin's house and he played me the Slic against some very expensive copper cables (no names no pack drill!!). I then borrowed it for a few days and had a few balanced copper cables here including an incredibly expensive Japanese copper cable. For me, with the Pass Labs, this cable was the best so I went out and bought one and will be looking for number two. The Pass Labs really takes advantage of balanced connections and gives very low noise and a great 3D soundstages but for me, the over tonal balance is superbly neutral (unlike Nordost). So far nothing has made me change my mind. And as a cable, it is extremely well made and certainly NOT a rip-off.

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Super Wammer

Would suggest that another look at the first post in this thread , if I am not mistaken it is about a cable . So while many other things have been discussed and brought up this has not degenerated in to a thread all about cables .

Cables have been mentioned and added in as for some with the lack of any measurable differences being shown they find it hard to accept that any differences can be heard. Cables are a huge part of the Audiophile market and probably the most controvertial as for many it is hard to see why the prices being quoted for often short pieces of cable are justified.

Now I have my own view and will continue to follow that and I am unlikely to change my view . This does not make it right nor does it make my view work for anyone else. I accept that others hear things and have a view different to mine but in the end as long as it gets them closer to the music then the differences are not important . If someone else spends more than my whole system on a piece of cable then fine . If that is essential to them and makes it more enjoyable to use their system then fine , I may not agree or even think it is too much money to spend on such a component but my opinion is just that mine , it has nothing to do with that persons system or what they feel works.

I have no axe to grind about any company that makes a product and then has to market and sell that product to make a living . That is their choice and how they price this is up to them . My only choice is if I agree and want to buy or refuse to pay that price.

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32 minutes ago, bencat said:

Would suggest that another look at the first post in this thread , if I am not mistaken it is about a cable . So while many other things have been discussed and brought up this has not degenerated in to a thread all about cables .

Cables have been mentioned and added in as for some with the lack of any measurable differences being shown they find it hard to accept that any differences can be heard. Cables are a huge part of the Audiophile market and probably the most controvertial as for many it is hard to see why the prices being quoted for often short pieces of cable are justified.

Now I have my own view and will continue to follow that and I am unlikely to change my view . This does not make it right nor does it make my view work for anyone else. I accept that others hear things and have a view different to mine but in the end as long as it gets them closer to the music then the differences are not important . If someone else spends more than my whole system on a piece of cable then fine . If that is essential to them and makes it more enjoyable to use their system then fine , I may not agree or even think it is too much money to spend on such a component but my opinion is just that mine , it has nothing to do with that persons system or what they feel works.

I have no axe to grind about any company that makes a product and then has to market and sell that product to make a living . That is their choice and how they price this is up to them . My only choice is if I agree and want to buy or refuse to pay that price.

Spot on dude, well said.

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4 minutes ago, MCRU said:

My only choice is if I agree and want to buy or refuse to pay that price.

Correct...and a debate about value for money, material and musical, may help to inform future choices. 

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4 minutes ago, savvypaul said:

Correct...and a debate about value for money, material and musical, may help to inform future choices. 

It's got nothing to do with money. Everyone has a different level of disposable income to spend on this mad arse hobby.

It's about the claims made to justify the price.

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Just now, bandit pilot said:

It's got nothing to do with money. Everyone has a different level of disposable income to spend on this mad arse hobby.

It's about the claims made to justify the price.

Most manufacturers (or their marketing depts) are looking for an 'angle'...

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1 minute ago, savvypaul said:

Most manufacturers (or their marketing depts) are looking for an 'angle'...

Accepted and understood. 

This is where we discuss angles :D

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14 hours ago, George 47 said:

True but not all do it and organising 3 or 4 different products at your home at the same time to narrow down a choice  would be fun. But there could be some savings. 

Yeah, I was musing about the future, not so much current practicalities (which you describe accurately).

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