toaster75

Follow on to upgradeitus

Recommended Posts

So I have a follow up to my previous thread

I invited a friend round last night to hear their thoughts on my system.

recap:

simaudio moon i5

dynaudio focus 220

Using vinyl and digital sources they remarked that it sounded closed in to their ears, like listening with cloth in their ears, lacking some top end ‘sparkle’. This would explain my previous unhappiness as to how my setup was sounding even to the point of questioning my ears! Pleased that my friend backed up concerns (without any prompting i might add) this led to me going into the loft to swap out one speaker for a a JPW GOLD MONITOR. We were amazed to find that the upper frequencies returned. It was only subtle but noticeable all the same.

Today I have taken out one of the dynaudio tweeters. They definitely work, I tested the resistance  @ 5.6 ohm. 

SO THE BIG QUESTION

What could possibly be happening? Crossover issues? Failing tweeters. This is happening on both channels equally to. Is there anyone who can test the frequency output to check if in range? Iam in north west if that helps. 

Thanks in advance

toby

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moderator

Sounds to me like your speakers are voiced on the tame side. Either that or your chosen cartridge doesn't agree with them.

eg:

I have 2 arms/carts on my TT. One has an Audionote cart, The other an Audio Technica. Both MC and both run through the same Audionote SUT. 

The AN cart sounds a bit lifeless and too deep with my Neat speakers where the AT is lively and with stacks of upper detail. If I replace the Neats with Acoustic Energy AE2, the AN cart wipes the floor with the AT in all respects. 

I'd try a different cart.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

But it happens with both digital and analogue sources...

also I have had this setup for 6 years and it’s only recently been an issue. Almost as though something has changed. Like I said it made me question my hearing! 

Edited by toaster75

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moderator
11 minutes ago, toaster75 said:

But it happens with both digital and analogue sources...

also I have had this setup for 6 years and it’s only recently been an issue. Almost as though something has changed. Like I said it made me question my hearing! 

Sorry, I must have skimmed past the part where it mentioned digital in the OP.

I'm stumped then. Is it possible that you've just got too familiar with your speakers? I'm trying to imagine why they'd change overnight unless something is broken. Try them on a different amp perhaps? Or chuck the speaker in the boot and hear them in a different system?

If Kegworth is on your list of to do I'll happily give them a work out on the Saturday.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thx bandit, you may well be right. I am hoping to be at kegworth so might well take you up on your offer if no one else can come up with any ideas. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If it all sounds lacking with both Vinyl and CD it sounds like you want speakers with more top end and presence.  Time for a speaker change perhaps?  Alternatively you could approach Falcon to see if they can offer a revised crossover for the current speakers (no doubting the quality of Dynaudio drive units .. I used the DT27 tweeters in my PRO9TLs and they were fab).

For alternatives see my response in the "Speaker recommendations" thread 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Moderator

Just one more thought, or more shared experience, if you play them at low volume most of the time it might be an idea to put some watts through them with a good heavy track or 2.

I bought some Audio Physic speakers a few years back that are not known for being shut in or dull, but they sounded dead when I plugged them in. I was not happy! So I went about my business with AC/DC playing through them in the other room and it sorted the problem. Worth a try at least.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Wammer

How old are they, could be that the ferrofluid has gone sticky.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How would I be able to test for that?

Tbh I don’t know... they are the mk1 version so could be 12years.  I bought them secondhand about 6 years ago.  I have also emailed dynaudio support to see if they have any ideas...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, toaster75 said:

How would I be able to test for that?

Tbh I don’t know... they are the mk1 version so could be 12years.  I bought them secondhand about 6 years ago.  I have also emailed dynaudio support to see if they have any ideas...

Is there any part number on the rear of the tweeter that you could look up? Some detective work may tell you if they have ferrofluid in them or wait to hear from dynaudio.

It sounds like the most likely cause to me.  It would be a subtle and gradual change over time which matches what you've said.  It's possible to clean and replace the ferrofluid in most tweeters which would be cheaper than sourcing replacements - if that's what it turns out to be.

I do go to Manchester and every now and then and could measure them for you (taking an impedance measurements to check against the original spec) or even check them with a calibrated mic and REW, to see how the tweeters measure against the rest of the system but I'm not planning to go before April and I expect you'll have found a solution by then.

Edited by rv295
typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Super Wammer

12 years is enough for ferrofluid to coagulate, although it can last longer. Some tweeters are still available after 12 years, and not necessarily expensive (e.g. many I have seen are around the £25 mark). Whilst it is cheaper and reasonably straightforward to change ferrofluid, the fluid you get won't necessarily be the exact same specification as the original, although I am of the mind that it's a lot nearer spec than coagulated fluid is :D . You might be able to find out the spec from Dynaudio and also the part number, but they may not be able to help, or like my speaker manufacturer, not even bother to respond :o . I used generic ferrofluid from ebay and it has worked fine, but it is a risk disassembling tweeters.

Falcon Acoustics are a good source of info and parts. The web has lots of info about changing ferrofluid. Good luck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, rv295 said:

Is there any part number on the rear of the tweeter that you could look up? Some detective work may tell you if they have ferrofluid in them or wait to hear from dynaudio.

It sounds like the most likely cause to me.  It would be a subtle and gradual change over time which matches what you've said.  It's possible to clean and replace the ferrofluid in most tweeters which would be cheaper than sourcing replacements - if that's what it turns out to be.

I do go to Manchester and every now and then and could measure them for you (taking an impedance measurements to check against the original spec) or even check them with a calibrated mic and REW, to see how the tweeters measure against the rest of the system but I'm not planning to go before April and I expect you'll have found a solution by then.

 

Thanks rev - that certainly sounds like a logical explaination.

from dynaudio website:

The extremely smooth and incredibly detailed high frequency reproduction characteristic of Dynaudio is guaranteed by the all-new T 380 soft-dome tweeter, which features the new Esotec+ technology. For the upper-range in the Focus 220, this called for the employment of Neodymium – one of the most efficient but also most expensive magnetic materials for loudspeaker construction.

28 mm soft dome
Magnetic fluid
Pure aluminium wire voice coil Rear chamber

That’s a very kind offer that I might well take up if I haven’t found a solution by April.

Will update in dynaudio come back with anything...
 

Thx

toby

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, toaster75 said:

We were amazed to find that the upper frequencies returned. It was only subtle but noticeable all the same.

Today I have taken out one of the dynaudio tweeters. They definitely work, I tested the resistance  @ 5.6 ohm. 

SO THE BIG QUESTION

What could possibly be happening? Crossover issues? Failing tweeters. 

I remember experiencing similar when ABing my LV OBX against some boom and tizz Aussie speakers which to me were loud and fatiguing.

The tizzy speaker designer thought the LV tweets were defective, and I could understand why he thought so.   In reality the LVs have a very different balance.  When listened to by themselves they make sense, however they could be accused of lacking sparkle.

After 10 years of the polite LVs,  i sold them for 70/80sTannoys, Rogers and now JBLs all of which are rolled off at the top and seem to suit my listening and material.

Maybe try putting in place the JPW monitors for a week and see if you could live with their presentation (or not!).  It may help to give you an idea of your preferred balance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, toaster75 said:

Thanks rev - that certainly sounds like a logical explaination.

from dynaudio website:

The extremely smooth and incredibly detailed high frequency reproduction characteristic of Dynaudio is guaranteed by the all-new T 380 soft-dome tweeter, which features the new Esotec+ technology. For the upper-range in the Focus 220, this called for the employment of Neodymium – one of the most efficient but also most expensive magnetic materials for loudspeaker construction.

28 mm soft dome
Magnetic fluid
Pure aluminium wire voice coil Rear chamber

That’s a very kind offer that I might well take up if I haven’t found a solution by April.

Will update in dynaudio come back with anything...
 

Thx

toby

No problem, drop me a message around the end of the month if you'd still like me to pop over and measure them.

I've had a look at the tweeter model, from what I can see, they were only used in the Focus 220 and Focus 140 so replacements are not that easy to come by.  There are some out there though, as an example I spotted a NOS pair in HK for $180 USD.

If you hear from Dynaudio, ask them for the tweeter thiele small parameters and any other info they have to help compare against factory spec.

These images below looks like the T-380 and were listed on ebay and described as being for the Focus 220.

s-l1600.jpg

s-l1600.jpg

Edited by rv295

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.