Sotosound

RUSSELL K IN THE HOUSE – IN MORE WAYS THAN ONE

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If in doubt, try it out....

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Unfortunately I only had parcel tape to hand rather than masking tape. I hope this won’t affect the outcome.

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2 hours ago, Sotosound said:

I trust my ears (still). :)  I've had these Red 150s for several weeks and have gotten to know them very well. I can also tell when they sound different, which they did with each tweak last Friday. There is a difference between wanting to hear something and actually hearing it.

I played classical piano for a good chunk of my life and I've performed hundred and hundreds of speaker measurements on a range of speakers and drivers, I've even built my own speakers and demonstrated them at last years scalford show.  Despite this, my trained ears are terrible compared to a microphone.  

If you don't care whether your music sounds anything like it should then subjective ears are all you need.  If you do care, then our ears are pretty poor reference tools and our audible memory is even worse. 

A microphone based set-up will win out every time in the long run.  You might tune by ear and like it but this rarely works out in the long run and if you do get to compare what you've tuned by ear to a more accurate mic based set-up with correction then you'll realise how much better it could be.  As awkwardbydesign and others have said, you need to try it so I wouldn't rule out getting a mic if you can interpret it and make changes to improve the room, speaker and listener interaction. If you can't then just enjoy what you've got.

If you think your ears are great for setting up speakers and your audible memory can remember small details of how something sounded and that you don't believe you can imagine hearing things then I have a link that may open your eyes a little  It was posted on a here by George a little while back.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/sounds-you-cant-unhear/373036/

Play the sound clip before reading the text below as it's a spoiler, listen to the clip then leave it a week before going back to the link and listening again.  I'd be very interested in hearing the results.

Edited by rv295

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This is interesting and I agree you need a proper blind test and measurement. I recently conducted two separate blind tests with my two daughters of Bluetooth v Bluetooth Apt X v direct streaming (Auralic Tidal HiFi) and both separately chose AptX. We have confirmation and anchor bias, hence the importance of blind testing. Look at the results of wine tasting, when blind tasting even the top experts often fail to differentiate between good reasonably priced wine and wine with stratospheric prices.

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Moderator

I generally find that the SQ of any sound system is vastly improved by the application of a wee dram to the tonsils. 

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8 hours ago, rv295 said:

I played classical piano for a good chunk of my life and I've performed hundred and hundreds of speaker measurements on a range of speakers and drivers, I've even built my own speakers and demonstrated them at last years scalford show.  Despite this, my trained ears are terrible compared to a microphone.  

If you don't care whether your music sounds anything like it should then subjective ears are all you need.  If you do care, then our ears are pretty poor reference tools and our audible memory is even worse. 

A microphone based set-up will win out every time in the long run.  You might tune by ear and like it but this rarely works out in the long run and if you do get to compare what you've tuned by ear to a more accurate mic based set-up with correction then you'll realise how much better it could be.  As awkwardbydesign and others have said, you need to try it so I wouldn't rule out getting a mic if you can interpret it and make changes to improve the room, speaker and listener interaction. If you can't then just enjoy what you've got.

If you think your ears are great for setting up speakers and your audible memory can remember small details of how something sounded and that you don't believe you can imagine hearing things then I have a link that may open your eyes a little  It was posted on a here by George a little while back.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/06/sounds-you-cant-unhear/373036/

Play the sound clip before reading the text below as it's a spoiler, listen to the clip then leave it a week before going back to the link and listening again.  I'd be very interested in hearing the results.

Many thanks for your post, and sorry if I'm starting to get a little anti, but again, this is leaning the argument towards saying that I can't possibly know what I heard because either I didn't measure or I didn't do a blind test.

I started this thread to say that I'd had a visit from a speaker designer and how happy I was, but now it's changed into a Peppa Pig episode wherein Peppa is telling her little bnrother "George! You're doing it all wrong!".

I know what I heard and I'm also not silly enough to not realise that my ears (in combination with my brain) are quite capable of deceiving me. Last Friday, however, they didn't. I know this but you will just have to take that on trust.

8 hours ago, Tony_J said:

I generally find that the SQ of any sound system is vastly improved by the application of a wee dram to the tonsils. 

That is truly the best upgrade that one can buy. :)

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Super Dealer

I think it has been a really interesting thread for a speaker designer to suggest placing rolls of tape under a power block , is extremely revealing.

Keith

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51 minutes ago, PuritéAudio said:

I think it has been a really interesting thread for a speaker designer to suggest placing rolls of tape under a power block , is extremely revealing.

Keith

Absolutely. He's either got a great sense of humour or, erm. Either way I doubt I could trust the man after that - if it's true. 

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Moderator

Or,  we could just by happy for the op because he's happy. 

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Stop being sensible, no place for it round here.

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4 minutes ago, bandit pilot said:

Or,  we could just by happy for the op because he's happy. 

I can be happy for him.

The designer can be happy too because he got a £4K speaker sale and an 'interesting' review on a forum.

But I can't believe the 'rolls of tape' rubbish. I would like confirmation that the designer really believes this and suggested it. He's either a fool or a charlatan, again, if he really said it. 

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Super Wammer

That's a rather extreme over reaction.

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12 hours ago, Blackmetalboon said:

Unfortunately I only had parcel tape to hand rather than masking tape. I hope this won’t affect the outcome.

I'm afraid it will.  You see, the resonance (and therefore isolation) characteristics will be completely different.  A simple test; hang a reel of parcel tape over one ear and flick it sharply with a finger.  Now do the same with a reel of masking tape, and hear how different they sound.  Even better, stick a button mic in your ear and actually measure it. (That one's for Keith.)

33 minutes ago, Trunky said:

I can be happy for him.

The designer can be happy too because he got a £4K speaker sale and an 'interesting' review on a forum.

But I can't believe the 'rolls of tape' rubbish. I would like confirmation that the designer really believes this and suggested it. He's either a fool or a charlatan, again, if he really said it. 

This is how Serge would sound without his meds. :nerves:

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35 minutes ago, Trunky said:

But I can't believe the 'rolls of tape' rubbish. I would like confirmation that the designer really believes this and suggested it. He's either a fool or a charlatan, again, if he really said it. 

Can't you ask nicely and go visit the OP to hear / see for yourself? Would confirm or deny your thoughts...?

4 minutes ago, sunbeamgls said:

That's a rather extreme over reaction.

It's fairly normal from T-Rex's. :D

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I sorry, but you Trolls really should stay under the bridge.

32 minutes ago, sunbeamgls said:

That's a rather extreme over reaction.

You need to get out more.

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Admin

Both sides have put their view across . If people dont want to accept that . Then move on . Its only a bloody stereo 

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