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Brexit Bill - do you want to pay?

Will you stump up £1200 for Brexit?   22 members have voted

  1. 1. Will you stump up £1200 for Brexit?

    • Yes. It's a small price to pay to get rid of those immigrants.
      2
    • No. Economic disaster and £1200? Count me out.
      17


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Super Wammer
3 minutes ago, Camverton said:

Where's everyone gone B|, and what proportion of our exports to the EU are services, banking and such, you know those things that can be relocated to within the EU.

Gone back to talking about hi fi. Sorry.

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Super Wammer

I'm going to start a new thread which combines contentious politics and contentious hifi: it will be a Vince Cables thread! Boom boom!

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Super Wammer
On 09/08/2017 at 20:25, patbarrydub said:

Switzerland is part of the single market though, I must admit to not keeping up with the negotiations of late and am wondering if the UK will have the same status or not?

Who knows. It seems to me that we (our negotiators) don't have a clue. Probably not their fault as it appears extremely complex, I certainly can't get my head round it. I do though think we'll end up accepting whatever bone the EU throws us, so nobody gets what they want. 

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On 10/08/2017 at 15:47, TheFlash said:

And this is what I don't get about how confident many Leave voters are that the EU will somehow fall into line. Now it may be that as one of the largest economies in the world our spending power per capita is rather higher than say that of Portugal, but I still see the EU having a much stronger hand in the market access bit of the negotiations. Which is probably the biggest and most important bit. Of course BMW et al will press for a deal which minimises barriers to trade, but we are negotiating with the EU not with individual countries so even such large and important organisations only have so much of a voice.

Apparently we will be able to exploit global (non-EU global) markets more effectively when not stymied by the EU. Like with India or the US for example. BMW (to stick with the same example) will doubtless have lobbied for the lowest possible barriers to trade between the EU and India/US. For decades. Does either of these countries have no or low tariff arrangements with the EU as a result? I think not. Add into the mix the EU's political need to send a message to other would-be exiters that it will hurt, and I really struggle to see any evidence base for real optimism.

For the avoidance of doubt, I really really want a great deal with the EU as part of a successful Brexit because that would be a win-win and am NOT trying to talk down our chances, be negative in the hope of a reversal of the decision, etc; I just can't see anything other than a sort of nostalgic jingoistic "stick your chest out, man!" attitude rather than evidence. There are lots of countries trading with lots of other countries and blocs so where are the best most inspirational examples? Why when people talk about the more obvious ones such as Norway and Switzerland - who have intelligently and pragmatically accepted some aspects of the EU rules having weighed up the pros and cons - are they dismissed as unacceptable because there is some EU jurisdiction, freedom of movement etc? What magic fairy dust will enable us to do better than them?

Enlighten me please. Somebody.

It's not just about tariffs. It's about our trading position in the world and the strength of our currency against others, to the extent any such tariffs could be of no significance anyway, with a strong pound. I think you've got a very simple view on the economics. 

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Super Wammer
7 minutes ago, Pmcman said:

It's not just about tariffs. It's about our trading position in the world and the strength of our currency against others, to the extent any such tariffs could be of no significance anyway, with a strong pound. I think you've got a very simple view on the economics. 

Firstly, it is about our trading position with rest of EU not the world - it would be nice to think that we can quickly sort out trade agreements with the non-EU world on at least comparable terms with today, as we like each others' stuff and Brexit is not their divorce - well not directly. 

Secondly, what strength of currency? Do you mean the strength of having a weak currency? The pound has plunged since the referendum as a direct result of the rest of the world's lack of confidence in our economy as a result of it. What do they know, they're only bl00dy experts. And economists. If there's one thing worse than an expert, it's an economic expert...

On this basis, I would rather have my "simple" than your "wrong".

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14 minutes ago, TheFlash said:

Firstly, it is about our trading position with rest of EU not the world - it would be nice to think that we can quickly sort out trade agreements with the non-EU world on at least comparable terms with today, as we like each others' stuff and Brexit is not their divorce - well not directly. 

Secondly, what strength of currency? Do you mean the strength of having a weak currency? The pound has plunged since the referendum as a direct result of the rest of the world's lack of confidence in our economy as a result of it. What do they know, they're only bl00dy experts. And economists. If there's one thing worse than an expert, it's an economic expert...

On this basis, I would rather have my "simple" than your "wrong".

We can do that quickly and it actually works quicker outside the eu and your point you were making is that tariffs is a bad thing and you didn't see any optimism consequently. But this isn't a point you can make, as the lesson of a strong currency is that,  whatever the situation with current exchange rates and uncertainties. 

Edited by Pmcman

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Super Wammer
We can do that quickly and it actually works quicker outside the eu and your point you were making is that tariffs is a bad thing and you didn't see any optimism consequently. But this isn't a point you can make, as the lesson of a strong currency is that,  whatever the situation with current exchange rates and uncertainties. 

I'm not sure I am willing to continue this exchange as we obviously have very different interpretations of what we see around us today and very different expectations (not desires, I really do want Brexit to be a success if we really are committed to it) of our future.

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