Spider

Room correction hardware???

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Hi

Having exhibited at my first Scalford and loved every second of it there was only one small fly in the ointment. My system sounded completely different to it does at home. Now I did expect this but not quite as dramatic as it was on the day. My little speakers produced a bass bloom I had not expected and although the SQ wasn't bad it got a bit congested and lost a lot of the detail I get at home. Having seen one or two graphs produced by people who used room correction I wondered about using something similar next year to help. OR taking bass traps etc to try and calm the rooms down.

I know that as an exhibitor you have to do the best you can with what you've got, but I want to put on the best show I can for 2018 and a quality sound I feel is crucial to at least try to deliver.

Any help or opinion is welcome.

Cheers

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The only one I know of and have experience of is the DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core DAC.

I don't have any experience with any others for comparison, it's a very powerful bit of kit, but the user interface takes some 'using'.

It's does mean turning your analogue to digital and back again :shock:.

I know Edd has quite a bit of experience with this stuff :^

Edited by Guest

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10 minutes ago, freefallrob said:

The only one I know of and have experience of is the DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core DAC.

I don't have any experience with any others for comparison, it's a very powerful bit of kit, but the user interface takes some 'using'.

It's does mean turning your analogue to digital and back again :shock:.

I know Edd has quite a bit of experience with this stuff :^

This is the bit that makes me wonder if it is for me, but that being said I'd like to be able to deliver a better sound quality for next year.so starting to think about different ways to achieve that.

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I have the 22A.  https://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series

Read the comments in my March bake off thread,several other Wammers have/are going down the same route.

3.PNG

My room before and after.

Edited by GJO

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Bass traps wont touch where the issues are. Unless you want to invest quite a lot of time and money into something for one day, mic, learning how to do it properly. Even then I'm not 100% convinced on full range correction, I prefer a sub+sat approach keeping the correction purely on the subwoofer, no use on large speakers like the 104.

If you are set on trying something, Instead of the 22A is suggest the new 24A, https://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-24 Should have the same performance at a lower price point. Even the basic 2x4hd without Dirac and just using the eq to notch out the bass boom can help. You will still need a mic, like the umik, a laptop and plenty of time.

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23 minutes ago, freefallrob said:

The only one I know of and have experience of is the DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0 Dual Core DAC.

I don't have any experience with any others for comparison, it's a very powerful bit of kit, but the user interface takes some 'using'.

It's does mean turning your analogue to digital and back again :shock:.

I know Edd has quite a bit of experience with this stuff :^

The A-D and D-A process is not anything to be concerned about, given how transparent modern converters are.

Of greater concern is what the DSP is actually doing. I don't use room correction, as it can't correct for the room except at one place where the measurement is done, and it can do nothing about energy storage effects like resonance except for a crude dropping of levels at resonant peaks which does nothing for the temporal accuracy.

It's possible to take several measurements and average them, so providing correction over a wider area, but then no one place is right. 

My preference is to use DSP to equalise the loudspeakers flat pseudo-anechoically, and treat the room acoustically only if necessary. At home, any room that's good for everyday living, TV, speech etc, is generally OK for HiFi as the 'speakers if EQed flat, will sound right in the room.

At Scalford, things are somewhat different in that the rooms are bare with no visitors, and very heavily damped when full, so the acoustics will change drastically. So even if DSP room correction worked, what would one correct for?  Scalford rooms tend to have higher ceilings than is usual domestically, which is a Good Thing, but can be square and/or with flimsy walls, which isn't. Yet, my experience at Scalford is that with a full or nearly full room, they can sound pretty good with sensible loudspeaker positioning. What reluctantly happens I think is that in the smaller rooms, to allow space for visitors, the 'speakers are placed too close to the walls, which increases the bass end and that bringing them forward and perhaps eliminating a few chairs would give better sound.

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6 minutes ago, SergeAuckland said:

The A-D and D-A process is not anything to be concerned about, given how transparent modern converters are.

I was waiting for you ;)

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Thanks Serge, that is interesting, I do think speaker positioning could have been better in my room, that being said "room" to do that is limited. I want to explore any solution's that will help to deliver a good experience for the visitors to my room. 

I have been offered two bass trap panels free of charge and a few acoustic tiles. Could these be used to help?

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I think the main difference with the small rooms is that the speakers end up in the corners, where as in your room Tim they are against a wall but with loads of space either side of them.

Edited by Guest

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There it is then. Take something front ported next year.

Damn. I'm giving too much information.:D

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Just now, Spider said:

Thanks Serge, that is interesting, I do think speaker positioning could have been better in my room, that being said "room" to do that is limited. I want to explore any solution's that will help to deliver a good experience for the visitors to my room. 

I have been offered two bass trap panels free of charge and a few acoustic tiles. Could these be used to help?

Sorry, I don't remember your room sufficiently well to comment, other than remembering it was a small room.

If the panels you've been offered are thin, say up to 5cm thickness, are not bass traps, they're absorbent panels which only work at mid-high frequencies depending on their thickness, and are used to tame early reflections from side walls. This may improve imaging, but skews the room's frequency response as they absorb mid and high frequencies but let bass straight through to the wall behind. Bass traps need to be thick, heavy and very deep, not easily transportable.  60-100cm diameter cylinders of foam or other soft padding standing in corners can help trap bass in corners, that's the sort of thing that might help, but at every Scalford I've been to, the smaller rooms have enough 'Wammers standing there to be quite effective bass traps. 

S

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9 minutes ago, SergeAuckland said:

Of greater concern is what the DSP is actually doing. I don't use room correction, as it can't correct for the room except at one place where the measurement is done, and it can do nothing about energy storage effects like resonance except for a crude dropping of levels at resonant peaks which does nothing for the temporal accuracy.

This is why, in normal setups, I'm not worried about correction above the modal point, 2-300hz ish. Dirac and its ilk are FIR filters, so can alter phase can improve temporal accuracy. They do take into account psychoacoustics and how we perceive these things.

A crude dropping of the peak is often all it takes, look at the 15db peak on GJO's. No it doesn't magically remove resonance, but you are putting less energy in so you reduce the decay time, I use a balance of looking at the frequency response and the spectral decay. If you can get the spectral decay looking smooth with no over hangs and the frequency response smooth it usually improves things a great deal.

And actually, I did see some interesting proposals on how the post ringing of an IIR notch filter worked rather well against the resonance decay of the rooms ringing.

In other words, I'm all for DSP correction in general, but just for Scalford? seems like a lot of hassle and expense.

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4 minutes ago, bandit pilot said:

There it is then. Take something front ported next year.

Damn. I'm giving too much information.:D

It's Royd Sorcerers or AE2's then,  :shock:  AHHH the AE's are taking over the show  :D

Rob, I was thinking the corners were not helping. Speaker position was a compromise due to having so many turntables on show.

Edited by Spider

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Just now, Spider said:

It's Royd Sorcerers or AE2's then,  :shock:  AHHH the AE's are tasking over the show  :D

Not sure what the 2's would do in a bedroom. But you've got all year to find some 1's! And there might not be 6 other rooms using them! And I could borrow them after! And...

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6 minutes ago, bandit pilot said:

Not sure what the 2's would do in a bedroom

:pants:

What Tim needs is some nice Yam NS1000 :D

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