LebenLenco

Nagoka MP110 vs DV20X2L cat amongst the pigeons

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I was in Spain last week helping a friend install his Raven and Phantom tonearm and we had a listen to the Raven with various arms and cartridges.  I took my Audio Note Arm 2v2 and Dynavector DV20X2L and we listened to this against his Jelco 750D (J7 silver wired and Oyaide PA-2075 tonearm cable) and Nagaoka MP110.  The Nagaoka had only two hours on it and the DV20 had 100 hours. I preferred the Jelco/MP110.  I was really really shocked.  How can this be?  Now I am not saying that it was better in all respects and I don't analyse everything to the nth degree but overall the music was more compelling with the MP110.

My friend was saying that maybe his SilverCore 1:10 SUT was not optimal for the DV20 and maybe there was just a better match of cartridge and phono stage.  Anyone using SilverCore with Dynavector?  

Also the MP110 sounded to me nothing like the reviews that I have read but maybe that was because they were using much less capable turntables.  Really made me think that I need a Raven but also to check out MM (and variant) cartridges.  Wondering how great the Nagaoka MP500 could be.

What are your thoughts please? My head is spinning!

Thanks

Len

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bit left field, had a MP110 on  modded Techie ( tweaked standard arm) for a while and for me did not see what all the fuss is all about, oh well we all listen for different things- blooming turntables eh?

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Well there is an analogy here - years ago when I sold the stuff we had a second hand pair of AR loudspeakers we had taken in trade.  We were trying them out in the dem room and something was off .. but a customer on hearing them said just what he wanted please hold them for ashe would be back in an hour to buy them.

In the meantime we had assessed the fault namely the tweeters were not working (they have a switch to boost or reduce the treble and it had corroded).  We sorted the problem and they sounded great .. customer returned and said noooooooooooooooo that isn't what he heard .. we disconnected the tweeters and the customer said YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS that is what he wanted.  So he bought them and was a happy chappy.

The moral of this is we all have our own preferences and our ears perform differently so if it sounds good to you then surprise surprise it is good .. for you.

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40 minutes ago, uzzy said:

Well there is an analogy here - years ago when I sold the stuff we had a second hand pair of AR loudspeakers we had taken in trade.  We were trying them out in the dem room and something was off .. but a customer on hearing them said just what he wanted please hold them for ashe would be back in an hour to buy them.

In the meantime we had assessed the fault namely the tweeters were not working (they have a switch to boost or reduce the treble and it had corroded).  We sorted the problem and they sounded great .. customer returned and said noooooooooooooooo that isn't what he heard .. we disconnected the tweeters and the customer said YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS that is what he wanted.  So he bought them and was a happy chappy.

The moral of this is we all have our own preferences and our ears perform differently so if it sounds good to you then surprise surprise it is good .. for you.

Uzzy the analogy seems to suggest that I might be deaf!

The point of my post wasn't to say that the MP110 was better than the DV20 but to try to understand what might be happening with what I was hearing.  Was it that maybe the SilverCore wasn't a suitable SUT for the DV20? Or maybe MMs have something that Macs don't have and I prefer the MM flavour.  Rather than subjective opinion I am wondering if there is a technical reason for the difference. What do you think?

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Just now, LebenLenco said:

Uzzy the analogy seems to suggest that I might be deaf!

The point of my post wasn't to say that the MP110 was better than the DV20 but to try to understand what might be happening with what I was hearing.  Was it that maybe the SilverCore wasn't a suitable SUT for the DV20? Or maybe MMs have something that Macs don't have and I prefer the MM flavour.  Rather than subjective opinion I am wondering if there is a technical reason for the difference. What do you think?

Heaven forbid that was not my intention - i was just trying to show how we all hear and see things differently - so one man's meat is another man's poison.  If we all had the same tastes then how much choice would there be in the market place?  I love Deccas others loath them and so on :)  .. So for you an MP110 sounded better than a DV20 to another a Shure V15V MMR is the only cartridge in the world etc.  So do not be surprised that you may a different preference .. When I was selling gear the LInn Isobarik loudspeaker came out to me it was how could a speaker sound so hard and awful yet have no top end detail but to others they were sonic nervana :) .. mind you Linn were consistent the original Khan to my ears was also hard at the top end :)

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Super Wammer
5 hours ago, LebenLenco said:

Also the MP110 sounded to me nothing like the reviews that I have read but maybe that was because they were using much less capable turntables.  Really made me think that I need a Raven but also to check out MM (and variant) cartridges.  Wondering how great the Nagaoka MP500 could be.

What are your thoughts please? My head is spinning!

Thanks

Len

You have PM.

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I do keep 110 as a spare , it was my first step into Nagaoka carts , I went through all range and 300 & 500 were a massive disappointment, finally settled on 200, which I replaced with ZYX R50 .

Don't get me wrong, 300&500 are great cartridges , lot of detail, very HiFi but vinyl for me is all about what some call analogue sound ,they sounded to me like my CD, basically.

200 is nice little bridge between 110 and higher models , lot of detail with nice warmth to it.

I just bought ZYX , first few hours disappointing, last weekend got to 20 , redone all setup , it seems to be quite sensitive to SRA , 3/4 of degree opened new world of experience, fast , dynamic , detailed , just bass bit loose, but there is time for improvement I believe , wouldn't go back to Nag 200 .Bear in mind you need arm with eff. mass between 12-20gram

Regards

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I'd like to try Nagaoka, but their estimate of cartridge life - 250 hours or thereabouts - is simply unaffordable for me.

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I would suggest the match between cartridge, SUT (if required) and phono stage is prime here.

Frankly, if the 110 sounded better than the DV20, then something was very wrong with the playback chain for the Dynavector.

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9 hours ago, rabski said:

I would suggest the match between cartridge, SUT (if required) and phono stage is prime here.

Frankly, if the 110 sounded better than the DV20, then something was very wrong with the playback chain for the Dynavector.

This is what I am thinking so hopefully someone can chime in ref SIlverCore 1:10. Thanks

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Well. Have I been listening to the recordings that I made in Spain and it seems that the MP110 has more 'punch' and its this aspect that it wins on and why I was so taken aback. The DV20 is clearly ahead in all other areas. Wondering if it's my SUT that is getting in the way as assuming that DV20 should be as or more punchy than the MP110 or am I mistaken?

Thanks

Len

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What is your system?

In my experience, the turntable is the most important component, followed by the phono stage.

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7 minutes ago, Blzebub said:

What is your system?

In my experience, the turntable is the most important component, followed by the phono stage.

it was on a friend's Raven AC. Are you seriously suggesting that this is the cause? Surely it would have the same affect on both?

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No, I'm asking you what your system is.

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13 hours ago, Blzebub said:

No, I'm asking you what your system is.

As I said the listening was done on a friend's Raven.  I have a Lenco. The comparison was not done on a Lenco.   Are you suggesting that knowing that I have a Lenco will explain what I heard on the Raven? 

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