Faig

Bitcoin and other alternative Digital Currencies

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The diamond trade is trading in a commodity though. Bitcoin is nothing more than crypto that has a value because of its perceived utility. A central bank does not manage its value, that is managed largely by demand, supply is managed by getting people to solve complex problems to create new blocks of encypted tranactions for which they are rewarded.

I think it is only taxed when you cash out, most would only use it to complete transactions, for which they get charged a fee by exchanges or brokers. These intermediaries are not regulated and people have been burnt by them.

When you buy what is a crypto key, a code, don't lose it or you are screwed. If you store this key on a computer connected to the internet it will be at risk from hacking theft, an external storage device and/or writing the key down would be safer.

Once you have your key you can spend your Bitcoins. If the value goes up whilst you own the key you make a profit same as any other currency speculation. You will be liable for tax on this when you cash out, it isn't a tax free system.

How long will it be around, I thionk that the answer is to suck it and see.

It may well be cheaper to use for transactions but it comes with more risk. As for investing in it, well, that's just a gamble like any other investment.

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What if the UK guy doesn't send you the power amps after you have paid the equivalent of 5000 GBP with bitcoins ? can you do a chargeback with bitcoins ?

You don't need to use banks to send international payments there are companies that offer much better rates than banks and the funds arrive same day in the overseas account when sending from GBP to Euros for example.

I use Baydon Hill as the rates are good and it is a same day service. I can agree a price to buy something from a European business at lunchtime, contact baydon Hill , send a GBP faster payment for free to Baydon Hill and the euros are in the sellers bank account overseas by 4 pm usually. https://www.baydonhill.com/

Thanks for the heads up on Batdon Hill.

Regarding Bitcoin chargeback.....no you can't do chargeback but it seems that people use Escrow which is a safe method. However, we are now creeping back into having a middleman to pay.

Another point worth mentioning is that paying by Bitcoin is microsecond "instant". Also, (depending on which country) it is also VAT free. As another contributor mentioned, you only pay tax when you cash out. So, for the likes of Hi-Fi fanatics who like to dabble in new gear, it could be a good method of continuously swapping in and out equipment.

Just a thought!

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Eh! The requirement to pay VAT has nothing to do with the specific currency you pay in.

Bitcoin is currently mainly for criminals. :D

Eh! The requirement to pay VAT has nothing to do with the specific currency you pay in.

Bitcoin is currently mainly for criminals. :D

The VAT is to do with when you convert to cash. [is Bitcoin a commodity or a currency]

Regarding the criminal element of your statement...........I can only conclude that you read and conform to the British tabloid press; Tut Tut coco.

I took you for a more opened minded member of society. Perhaps even, a forward thinker!

The banks and the governments will always use "your security interests" as a lever to frighten you into submission! I am not an Evangelist or Libertarian, (well maybe a little libertarian). I like to think of myself as someone who has gotten out of the rat-race and so I see things differently. I welcome anything which takes away the control that these guys have. The Political Correctness, the nanny state, the everyday control of "My Money". I welcome ideas like Bitcoin.....a means to an end. I find it invigorating that individuals can invent things like this "for the benefit of all mankind".

Anyway coco I think you are winding me up and I'll admit you succeeded, (again--you Troll), but honestly...as you get older and disassociate yourself from needing the government then you begin to see how we are all being manipulated to serve the 1%.

Stop scaremongering with government words like "criminals". Bit coin is the future.

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Thanks for the heads up on Batdon Hill.

Regarding Bitcoin chargeback.....no you can't do chargeback but it seems that people use Escrow which is a safe method. However, we are now creeping back into having a middleman to pay.

Another point worth mentioning is that paying by Bitcoin is microsecond "instant". Also, (depending on which country) it is also VAT free. As another contributor mentioned, you only pay tax when you cash out. So, for the likes of Hi-Fi fanatics who like to dabble in new gear, it could be a good method of continuously swapping in and out equipment.

Just a thought!

yeah, sure, have fun trying to explain to Royal Mail or whichever courier you have used to import your new kit that you arent liable to pay VAT becuase you used Bitcoins!:roll:

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The VAT is to do with when you convert to cash. [is Bitcoin a commodity or a currency]

Regarding the criminal element of your statement...........I can only conclude that you read and conform to the British tabloid press; Tut Tut coco.

I took you for a more opened minded member of society. Perhaps even, a forward thinker!

The banks and the governments will always use "your security interests" as a lever to frighten you into submission! I am not an Evangelist or Libertarian, (well maybe a little libertarian). I like to think of myself as someone who has gotten out of the rat-race and so I see things differently. I welcome anything which takes away the control that these guys have. The Political Correctness, the nanny state, the everyday control of "My Money". I welcome ideas like Bitcoin.....a means to an end. I find it invigorating that individuals can invent things like this "for the benefit of all mankind".

Anyway coco I think you are winding me up and I'll admit you succeeded, (again--you Troll), but honestly...as you get older and disassociate yourself from needing the government then you begin to see how we are all being manipulated to serve the 1%.

Stop scaremongering with government words like "criminals". Bit coin is the future.

For the benefit of mankind? are you shitting kidding me. I wonder how much money the guy who developed it made? I rather suspect his motivation was not as egalitarian as you assume. I understand the fella is a bit of a recluse? Perhaps too busy hiding his fortune from tax authorities:)

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yeah, sure, have fun trying to explain to Royal Mail or whichever courier you have used to import your new kit that you arent liable to pay VAT becuase you used Bitcoins!:roll:

I don't have all the answers. I opened the conversation to help get some answers. My understanding is that if, for example, you deal between UK and Spain, (who both acknowledge that there is no VAT on Bitcoins when cash them,) then you can transfer money (Bitcoins) freely. If you send any goods Inter-European then VAT should not come into it anyway.

The difficulty arises when you Import or Export beyond the EU.

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For the benefit of mankind? are you shitting kidding me. I wonder how much money the guy who developed it made? I rather suspect his motivation was not as egalitarian as you assume. I understand the fella is a bit of a recluse? Perhaps too busy hiding his fortune from tax authorities:)

I suppose it is beyond your comprehension that there are people in this world who do things for the benefit of others. I'll accept that, it doesn't seem normal and it certainly doesn't fit in with the 1% rich.

Perhaps you should take some time-out and read a little about the development of the Bitcoin. You will see that the inventor has NEVER MADE A PENNY from his invention!

You sound like the typical "naysayer".

As I said before:- I am not pushing this idea of Bitcoin, I am merely inviting educated analysis and discussion.

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Bitcoin is the most popular crypto currency at the moment. Bitcoin created a lot of noise around. In turn, I want to invest money in bitcoins. I read a very expanded article about buying bitcoins https://bitcoinhowbuy.com/ , but I want to hear recommendations about the purchase. How much money can I get on Btc? I still didn't come to a decision whether to own the bitcoins.

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On 14/02/2016 at 19:10, Faig said:

I see a future in Bitcoins and other alternative currencies. I'm just wondering how you guys feel.

Yes I do see a future in Bitcoin/Crypto Currency/Blockchain.    To put it bluntly,  we have seen that when the internet comes for your business the internet wins.  The banks don't really seem to get this yet.     Its still in its infancy, but it is here and it will change things.  

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Moderator

The suggestion that buying any currency is a potential 'investment' is a path nobody ought to be treading unless they have money to burn. Conventional currencies suffer from low interest rates and the fact that banks invariably take their cut. However, they are 'bricks and mortar' money and as long as you follow basic requirements in terms of the amount held in any account, the funds are safe. Bitcoin is something totally different. It is unregulated and like any crypto-currency, it actually has no existence as such. You could potentially get rich, but you could equally be as likely to lose the lot.

The VAT issue has nothing to do with the currency you pay in. If you buy something from outside the EU (at the moment) and import it into the UK, you are liable for duty and VAT on it. It doesn't matter whether you pay in sterling, bitcoins or conch shells. You are liable for tax and VAT. Especially if you don't pay in sterling, dollars or euro, HMRC will charge tax based on their valuation of the goods. This can hurt. Badly. And it's due at the time of import.

There is no VAT on currency itself, only on goods and profit. And it is NOT payable when you get your money. It is payable at the time it is due. If you import something, you don't pay tax when you pay or get paid, the tax is, again, due at the moment you import it.

If you are trading in the UK only, then you can manage your tax on a 'cash' basis if you are self-employed or a small business, which means that tax is payable when you get paid. That is tax on profit, and is nowhere near the same as duty and VAT.

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