Many LINN Selekt reviews where wrongly stating that the Selekt is Roon Ready. Some reports where also claiming compatibility with Airplay but failing to at least note the lack of Airplay 2. After weeks of back and forth emails with some publications, I was able to correct: What-HIFI The update now claims Roon compatible instead of "Ready" and notes lack of Airplay 2 https://www.whathifi.com/reviews/linn-selekt-dsm-review AudioStream Now correctly states Roon Tested. Unfortunately does not mention lack of Airplay 2 https://www.audiostream.com/content/linn-selekt-dsm-integrated-power-amp-and-katalyst-arrives Lowbeats (German) Now correctly states it "Roon-kompatibel" and mentions lack of Airplay 2. They actually went as far as to write that Airplay 2 is not planed since requires a hardware change - as informed by LINN. https://www.lowbeats.de/linn-selekt-dsm-einer-der-besten-streaming-amps/2/ So they release a new device wit hardware that will not doe Airplay 2 and Roon Ready. Really a petty. If you find more reviews of the LINN Selekt falsely claiming it is Roon Ready or not clarifying it does not doe Airplay 2, I am more then happy to contact any editor asking for correction.
deleted the double port... see below
maoli replied to DutchWillem's topic in Linn Owners Club and Forum's Network Music Players & Music StreamersWhat an interesting post @golke53. I have not followed LINNs marketing for the past years so I cannot really comment, but proper segmentation of products and channels is certainly very important in most industries. I visited LINN on this years High End in Munich. I was surprised because the LINN booth was only doing 30min demos of the LINN Selekt. After all, it was very informative and one of the booths I stayed the longest. So very focused, not trying to show all. Much better in my point of view then the much larger NAIM/Focal booth's. Sure they had a Statement playing there - wow - who actually cares about Statement and those gigantic Focal speakers
I agree. In the meantime I see LINN has released another updated firmware. But reading the release notes I see no mention of any fixes regarding the errors I mentioned above. Since I don't have the Selekt on home demo anymore, I cannot tell. LINN support was very friendly - I hope they will get in touch with their findings. Else I will follow up in a few weeks.
As others have already written, LINN support was added by ROON from the roon guys, meaning they implemented inside the roon software what is needed to stream audio to LINN devices. While this is perfectly fine and was hopefully done right (meaning audio quality is just as good as using LINNs own software), it is very different from being ROON Ready (implementing Roons own RAAT protocol). The differences: - Roon has a notion of "grouping" devices in zones. You can do multiroom, but only between zones that use the same underlying streaming protocol. So, you can for instance group all your Airplay compatible devices and stream to them using Roon. With all the limitations of Airplay for sure (and I must say that sync between devices of diferent vendors is not good, in my own experience). If your devices are Roon Ready (supporting RAAT) you would prefer to use RAAT instead of Airplay, since RAAT (at least on paper) has many advantages over Airplay. So with RAAT, you can do high resolution/HD audio streaming to a NAIM Uniti, a Devialet and say a Bluesound somewhere in your house. You cannot add a LINN to this mix, because as was written already, the LINN is a bespoke implementation added to the Roon software - all LINN devices run over a separate protocol. What you can do is of course stick to using all LINN devices in your house. Then you can do multiroom from within Roon. But the idea of having a vendor independent multiroom protocol combined with Roons great UI/UX, is not fulfilled with the current LINN support. I understand their idea of using open-source, I actually admire this a lot. But as consumer I would love to have the choice of using RAAT. We, the users, might have a voice - I am sure someone from LINN is watching this here. - the half backed implementation/integration of LINN in Roon has a few usability downsides also. A Roon Ready device will tell Roon what is the volume range of the device, with this meta information, Roon can adjust it's UI for the volume range of the device. Not a big issue, but if you limit the volume on the Selekt, then you get a volume range in Roon that is simply not correct. OK, after some looking around I found a way to adjust in accordingly in Roon - but again - I might be a poweruser. This should not work this way, we want technology to just work, the most it disappears, the better it is. Another example: the current Roon implementation only sends the currently playing song to the LINN. The LINN devices have no notion of the queued songs - so, you cannot use the remote control's previous or next song buttons to navigate, you need to unlock your mobile device and use the Roon software to do it. This is very different from Roon Ready devices, where I believe part of the certification is not only implementing the transport protocol, but ensuring that such basic usability just works out of the box. In Roon RAAT mode, I can hit next on the remote of any device in the zone, and all devices will move to the next song in sync. This is what I am looking for. Not only great sound (this LINN is delivering, without any doubt) - but also great user experience. Let us make sure, LINN gets there
Interesting post Tin. I never suggested LINN replace their streaming protocol with Roon RAAT. I suggested they ADD streaming protocols to give people more choices, or if you so will, to be able to cover a greater share of the market. Anyway, LINN has given me the hint they only support open-source ATM and the fact RAAT is closed is the reason why they are not supporting it. Apple Airplay is probably supported via a wild hack, reverse engineering of the protocol. I am just guessing here, but that would explain why they don't add the Airplay Logo to the LINN Website: because they simply cannot, Apple probably never certified any LINN device. Again, just my theory. I am no RAAT expert, but what you write totally contradicts Roons description of the protocol. So I ask myself if there is anything behind those claims. Anyway, we can discuss RAAT in the Roon forums, no need to do it here right https://kb.roonlabs.com/RAAT
I guess I really fell in love with the Selekt's Katalyst DAC. Else I would not put so much effort into reporting these bugs and just move on as you said. I recently tested an Auralic Polaris. It's usability was better then the Selekt in some ways, but it had many quircks of it's own and the sound was, well, not even close. I did not care to send Auralic a detailed report of my findings. It was interesting to test Auralic after the LINN. It made me realise how damn good NAIM is in this regard (usability, integration, implementation of streaming standards). Now that the Uniti Series got Airplay 2 via firmware update, it is even better. PS: NAIM integration is not that good if you use the more expensive separates like NDX2 or up with some preamp. Since the preamps are controlled via poti or so, not digitally, you cannot set the preamps volume through Airplay or roon. A BIG problem for the more expensive stuff. I guess NAIM needs to release a preamp with digitally controlled volume, connected to the streamers, to get a really good user experience.
Does no other LINN user care about this?
Roon does not do multiroom entirely by "itself" - to do multiroom you also need support for doing so on the devices themselves. Airplay 2 is one such protocol. It is great for doing multiroom audio from those iDevices. My kids and wife will use Airplay all the time. It sounds ok, but has many limitations. Another way to get multi-vendor multiroom is by implementing the Roon "raat" protocol - doing so makes the device be labeled "Roon Ready". The roon protocol is said to be quite good in sync and supports HD audio. For me, Roon Ready AND Airplay 2 is quite important, so I can be sure I can mix and match the devices over my home as I like. Bluesound in the kitchen, NAIM Muso on Kids room, LINN Selekt.., Devialet... and so on.
LINN support has contacted me regarding these bugs/change requests. Some they could not reproduce or are requesting further information. Anyway, it is good that they are looking into it and keeping in touch.
I agree that 6 and 7 might well be my fault. A bit strange I had the same problem with Kazoo Server and my own Asset NAS. But with enough effort I could certainly make this work if I had to. Regarding Airplay: I don't agree. The whole point for these all-in-ones is in my view a simplified setup AND more streamlined user experience. My wife and kids want to stream Airplay from their iDevices and control the volume easily. This is their needs. I have other listening habits, so I want high quality music playback. LINN has achieved the later, but not the first, but I guess this is dangerous for such a product. If it is not easier to use then separates but as expensive as good ones, why should I then care to consider this product at all? It is interesting to see that NONE of the things I mentioned about usability, nor the fact that the Selekt does not have Airplay 2 and is not roon ready, was mentioned in any single review about the Selekt. Looks like reviewers really only focus on what is working and nothing else. What value this has for potential customers I don't know. I want to make some pressure for LINN I must say. That's why I am starting these discussions here, and I will also write to every single Selekt reviewer and ask why his article contained none of these. Lets see what happens.
My local dealer was nice enough to let me do a home demo of the LINN Selekt. This allowed me to spend more time with it, and unfortunately uncovered a lot of usability bugs. Tested: LINN Selekt with Katalyst DAC and Power Amp running firmware 4.69.289 (most up to date) Bug: changing inputs on the Selekt mutes the sound. You have to switch back to another input, then back a second time to the input you want to get sound. This was 100% reproducible. When turning on the TV, the Selekt will automatically switch to it (if you configure it to do so, which is nice). But this bug hits hard then, since it will switch to TV and be muted until you manually switch somewhere and back again. This bug alone caused my wife to veto buying the Selekt. CR: when streaming to the Selekt via Airplay, the volume you adjust on the IOS device seems to be applied on the digital signal, it is not modifying the Selekt's preamp volume. Thus, on an IOS device you can only play as loud as the current setting on the Selekt's preamp. Those more techies will also know that changing the volume on the digital signal can reduce quality significantly (especially since Airplay only streams at 16bits). Compare that with NAIMs Muso or Unity devices, where Airplay integration was properly done. The volume setting on the IOS device is directly changing the NAIM devices preamp volume, you also see that instantly on the volume dial LEDs. Changing the volume on the device will in turn move the IOS device's slider instantly. This is a good integration. Everything else is NOT. CR: when streaming to the Selekt via Airplay or roon, it is not possible to "move" to the next/previous track using the Selekt remote or multifunction dial. pressing these will just do nothing. Again, most competitors do this right. Sure we have apps, but sometimes just pressing the remotes "next" button is much quicker then opening the app. Bug: changing inputs sometimes resulted in Airplay or HDMI not working at all. I had to turn off and turn on the Selekt again. Happened 3 times in 2 days. Bug: then streaming to the Selekt vie Airplay or roon, the pause button on the remote works. But sometimes I could not continue playing after hitting pause through the remote. I did not find out when exactly this happens. Sometimes it worked, sometimes not. Bug: Kazoo iOS app: I was guessing that some usability problems might not happen, if one uses Kazoo, the "native" app to drive the Selekt. So I decided to give it a go for fairness. Installed it on my iPhone 8 and it just stated it is "looking for playlists" forever. My Qnap NAS is running the latest version of Asset UPNP server. All my files are ALAC (CD quality or higher) and have artwork integrated in the files. Works well with the NAIM and Auralic apps. Could not make Kazoo work with it. Bug: just for fun I installed the Kazoo-Server on my Mac and pointed it to a folder with some ALAC files. The server appeared on the Kazoo app. But selecting it shows the same behaviour again "looking for playlists". CR: the Selekt volume goes from 0 to 100%. This can be limited to some max value, the default being 80%. After setting some max, the volume in roon or on the Selekt dial will then only go to the max you specified. So, you will never see that 20 or more lights on the Selekt dial. Now this seems just wrong. If I limit the power amp output to some value, I still have volume that I can set between 0 and 100%, and the volume dial should work within that range. This is then also compatible with Airplay wich always defines volume to be between 0 and 100%. This is the way NAIM is implementing the volume on Muso and Unity . Edited this part twice but now I can confirm this is the way the NAIM Muso and Uniti series work. For me, the purpose of this device is to be simple to use - I am considering downscaling to an all-in-one in order to have something more simple to use. While the LINN Selekt fails on the usability, I continue to be amazed by it's performance. I hope LINN will fix the errors with future firmware versions - for me, it makes no sense to buy an 8K device with such problems.
I heard the new LINN Selekt with the Katalyst DAC option and it really impressed me. I have spent the last 15 years changing my NAIM black boxes for the most part. I believe the Selekt is much better then my NDX / XPS DR system. But I do not know on what planet LINN is in regards to streaming capabilities. Here's what I found out talking to support: All LINN players are roon tested but not roon ready => so there is no way to setup multiroom using the roon raat protocol All LINN players do not support Airplay 2 => so no way to setup multiroom from an iDevice, with improvements of Airplay 2. And: LINN has no current plans to add roon ready or Airplay 2. So the only way to have multiroom is to have exclusively LINN devices. I guess they will miss some customers unless they change strategy.
A very warm welcome to THE WAM - MUSIC & HIFI FORUM, you are now part of a fantastic group of music lovers and HiFi enthusiasts.
We are very excited that you have decided to join us. It is packed full of interesting reviews, news and pictures of great HiFi systems and other tech gadgets for your enjoyment.
Our members know just about everything there is to know about amps, speakers, turntables and all things music so feel free to introduce yourself and ask them!
SPECIAL 10 MINUTE OFFER
MORE IMAGE AND VIDEO HOSTING
200MB more space (Wammer 25MB)
MORE PRIVATE MESSAGES
1000 messages (Wammer 25)
SELL YOUR HIFI
Use our online Megastore to buy and sell your HiFi (Not Available To Wammers)
10% Off Our New Vinyl Sales (Not Available To Wammers)
15% OFF Trade Deals From Our Selected Partners (Not Available To Wammers)
Discounts To BOTH Hifi Shows in Harrogate and Melton Mowbray
UPGRADE TO SUPER WAMMER MEMBERSHIP IN THE NEXT 10 MINUTES AND SAVE £5
Upgrade Now To Super Wammer for Just £15 and SAVE Hundreds Over The Year
(Normal Super Wammer Price is £20)