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i_should_coco

What's wrong with your system?

237 posts in this topic

Every time I get to the point of having a really nice, well balanced system, an urge for 'creative destruction' seems to break out and I start changing things radically. Several times this had resulted in years of trying to get back where I started.

I guess this reflects a tension between, on the one hand, simply enjoying music through a really nice system, and on the other, being really curious about what it's like to live with radically different setups.

I'm trying to change this though: I've had the Tannoys now for three years, and at the front end I've been getting more and more Audio Note/Kondo as time passes (can't see the Voyd/Arm3/Io being changed any time soon, or the AN transport and DAC). Being pretty satisfied with front end and speakers, there is only really the amp to think about and I'm hoping the incoming EAR V20 will stablize that for a while.

This time though I'm already building up a cheaper second system which (finances permitting) will allow me to muck around with different bits without messing up the main setup.

A wise old friend of mine once said of HiFi, it's best to have a 'reference system' that changes very slowly over time, then keep the 'novelty gene' at bay with second/third systems where you try out bits and pieces. Then at least you don't sell the farm and ruin everything every time you get that itch. You have to find a workable way of dealing with the constant flow of irresistable audio goodies in the mags and forums.

He had the same ARC pre and EAR monos for 18 years, but still bought and tried out loads of new kit and vintage gear. It kept his reference system intact and didn't break the bank.

His reference setup is all Nagra now...a wise man indeed!

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Realistic Bass at concert levels. room with a flat response, professional noise standard (NR 10 no higher than 15)

http://tech.ebu.ch/docs/tech/tech3276.pdf

speaker wise.. itll have to be something big. Kunoshita RM-7VC or like the Evolution Acoustics MM-7 or the Tom Perazella custom build.

RM7VMESA+RS.gifMM7.jpgDSCN0854.jpg

so ruler flat response at all frequencies, bass response down to 10-15 Hz.

of course by the time I am able to afford the house and size space to put the damned things in who knows what will be out there?

other than the bass thing though, and my room...system is perfect as is

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My system is perfect. There is always room for more perfection, but I have quite a good quota right now. To paraphrase Animal Farm, most systems are perfect but some are more perfect than others!;-)

I think the main problem with many dabblers in hifi is that lack of objectivity. Hifi tends to be an aspirational pursuit and if you are not objective in that pursuit you find yourself chasing the brand or the look or the kudos. I agree that everyone should measure their system. That does not have to mean that you then pursue a ruler flat measurement, it just means you know where the problems are and if you are totally happy with your system you have a benchmark. Look (as well as listen) to the effects of tweaks and changes and note those changes. At least you are then informed about what the differences in measurement sound like.

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The best thing to do is get around and hear other Wammer's set ups. It will either give you ideas about what you might like to try if you are concerned about any aspect, or provide a bit of satisfaction with what you have.

I don't think most upgrading or box swapping happens because people have identified a problem with what they hear as such, more likely it's just curiosity or some nagging insecurity that they might have done better with a different choice. Going out and hearing a few systems can give you ideas, or make you feel less concerned with other possibilities, win-win.

The happy position is to be pleased to play music rather than do anything else. I'm sure I could improve my system in terms of the usual desirables such as increased resolution, more scale etc., who couldn't? But I'm equally confident that it wouldn't be a cheap exercise and changing the balance of what I currently enjoy could just as easily spoil things. Maybe that explains why I've not changed anything for so long. Finding the best mastered versions of favourite albums has diverted my audiophile OCD away from gear.

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Very interesting reading this - I reckon about 3/4 of the comments on here are regarding either room treatment or the desire for a bigger space. It's probably true that many would benefit from that but it's not all roses and I'm still convinced that my system's achillees heel is the room too, but because it's too big. I remember moving in here and having come from new-builds and their postage stamp gardens were glad to have a acre of mixed garden to play with, our neighbour made a very wise comment that ended up being very true, "you'll be pleased with a big garden only twice, once when you first get it and once when you get rid of it". I suspect the same may be true of the desire for enormous listening spaces as they bring with them the need for enormous budgets in my experience.

I posted this elsewhere, but I was just reading with interest the THX specifications to give it some perspective :

THX Plus - Certified Systems have the power to fill a small home theater or room

THX Select2 - Certified products are for medium sized rooms, up to 2,000 cubic feet in size

THX Ultra2 - Certified products bring the cinematic experience to large home theaters and full rooms of 3,000 cubic feet in size

My room is over 7000 cubic feet....

My problems have been that I just can't pressurise that without perhaps a pair of labs or pipes which just isn't going to fly. I've had the big Zingalis in here that just flap bass around, Avantgardes that hit their end stops etc. Things like the Mowgan Mabons, Monopulses and Zens did a very convincing job of their bass, but it was never deep or with that palpable sense of pressure. I've learned I must rely on speakers that use a different method of getting bass across. The current Hornings will work on pressure from their non-direct bass and horn output, they just about get the pressure up in this room enough that the bass pulses can be felt - but I heard them before literally re-arranging internal organs (and that was still in a 'big' room), the OBs rely on a wave front from a huge driver area rather than pressure, that is perhaps why that element of it works better in here.

I also have a main room mode at 31Hz and that is low enough to be a complete bastard to fix, I've four monster bass traps and 12 panels in here an I'm still up 8-10db with those speakers - imagine the standard mob whose port tuning is around the same frequency.

So yes, great to have space, but I'd rather have half the volume right now....

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of course by the time I am able to afford the house and size space to put the damned things in who knows what will be out there?

Have you been saving? :P

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hehe - I wonder if my horns could do it.

Very interesting reading this - I reckon about 3/4 of the comments on here are regarding either room treatment or the desire for a bigger space. It's probably true that many would benefit from that but it's not all roses and I'm still convinced that my system's achillees heel is the room too, but because it's too big. I remember moving in here and having come from new-builds and their postage stamp gardens were glad to have a acre of mixed garden to play with, our neighbour made a very wise comment that ended up being very true, "you'll be pleased with a big garden only twice, once when you first get it and once when you get rid of it". I suspect the same may be true of the desire for enormous listening spaces as they bring with them the need for enormous budgets in my experience.

I posted this elsewhere, but I was just reading with interest the THX specifications to give it some perspective :

THX Plus - Certified Systems have the power to fill a small home theater or room

THX Select2 - Certified products are for medium sized rooms, up to 2,000 cubic feet in size

THX Ultra2 - Certified products bring the cinematic experience to large home theaters and full rooms of 3,000 cubic feet in size

My room is over 7000 cubic feet....

My problems have been that I just can't pressurise that without perhaps a pair of labs or pipes which just isn't going to fly. I've had the big Zingalis in here that just flap bass around, Avantgardes that hit their end stops etc. Things like the Mowgan Mabons, Monopulses and Zens did a very convincing job of their bass, but it was never deep or with that palpable sense of pressure. I've learned I must rely on speakers that use a different method of getting bass across. The current Hornings will work on pressure from their non-direct bass and horn output, they just about get the pressure up in this room enough that the bass pulses can be felt - but I heard them before literally re-arranging internal organs (and that was still in a 'big' room), the OBs rely on a wave front from a huge driver area rather than pressure, that is perhaps why that element of it works better in here.

I also have a main room mode at 31Hz and that is low enough to be a complete bastard to fix, I've four monster bass traps and 12 panels in here an I'm still up 8-10db with those speakers - imagine the standard mob whose port tuning is around the same frequency.

So yes, great to have space, but I'd rather have half the volume right now....

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hehe - I wonder if my horns could do it.

That crossed my mind too!

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Need to get a proper several hundred watt amp on the tapped horns I reckon.

That crossed my mind too!
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Need to get a proper several hundred watt amp on the tapped horns I reckon.

Steve, obviously you have yours positioned vertically. Is there anything to stop you having them lying at floor level, or do they sound poor like that?

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yes, but I'm curious as to what people feel are the *current shortcomings* and what aspects they hope to improve. In what way is your room "challenging"?

Just hi fi junkies, one line is never enough you always need more.

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And how do I make them pretty? They's got to be pretty.... Zebrano or Madagascan Ebony....

Stick 'em in the corner, and wallpaper over the top. Sorted. :D

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