barnacle bill

32 bit music

36 posts in this topic

Sorry for dragging this thread back up.

The best 24bit music file (2L.no) I've analyzed mannaged a whooping 12bit or 72dB of dynamic range.

If a 24 bit file only has a 12 bits of info and a true dynamic range of 72db why not put onto a CD, wouldn't that reach a greater audience?

What's needed is a few recording engineers and industry "suits" who are willing to use a bit more than 6dB of it.

How does this work? Are the zero's in the digital signal just pads to bring the dynamic range to 96db's?

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How does this work? Are the zero's in the digital signal just pads to bring the dynamic range to 96db's?

96dB is the theoretical maximum that the format can carry (actually it's a bit more as it's possible to record information below the noise floor).

No-one actually records, or would want to record on to a CD using the whole range. The mics used couldn't resolve it, ambient noise will also reduce what's actually available.

then you have to consider what's actually listenable at home. You don't want to be having to turn the volume control up and down all the time, and having concert hall dynamics isn't practical.

The best non-classical recordings (from a DR perspective) have about 15dB of range. Classical may even have a little more. Remember this is the actual difference between the quietest parts and the loudest parts of the recording, not the range available on the medium.

And this is why CD as a format (and indeed LP!) is perfectly fine (in terms of DR).

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The best 24bit music file (2L.no) I've analyzed mannaged a whooping 12bit or 72dB of dynamic range.
If a 24 bit file only has a 12 bits of info and a true dynamic range of 72db why not put onto a CD, wouldn't that reach a greater audience?

Because......24bit files can be sold at a higher price...24bit files require new D/ACs...24bit files require new transports...24bit files require a lot of storage...24bit files require dedicated "bit-perfect" software...24bit files require experimenting with firewire/usb/s-pdif/toslink cables...and people audiophiles are willing to buy yet another copy of "Kind of Blue"

P.S.: and CD is dead anyway...

- - - Updated - - -

96dB is the theoretical maximum that the format can carry (actually it's a bit more as it's possible to record information below the noise floor).

No-one actually records, or would want to record on to a CD using the whole range. The mics used couldn't resolve it, ambient noise will also reduce what's actually available.

then you have to consider what's actually listenable at home. You don't want to be having to turn the volume control up and down all the time, and having concert hall dynamics isn't practical.

The best non-classical recordings (from a DR perspective) have about 15dB of range. Classical may even have a little more. Remember this is the actual difference between the quietest parts and the loudest parts of the recording, not the range available on the medium.

And this is why CD as a format (and indeed LP!) is perfectly fine (in terms of DR).

More than half of my "classical" music CDs have around 45-50dB of DR.

Since my room's noise-floor is somewhere near 35dB, the loud bits are played back quite loud and I presume that many non-audiophile people wouldn't like this.

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If a 24 bit file only has a 12 bits of info and a true dynamic range of 72db

This is not what is happening. The definition of dynamic range depends on the context.

When discussing music, DR means the difference between the loudest passage and the quietest passage, where a passage itself means something of a few seconds or more (i.e. the gaps between the notes don't count).

When discussing signal theory DR means the difference between the loudest signal a channel can pass, and the channel's noise floor. No information can exist below the noise floor.

The quality reproduction of a musical programme with, say, a dynamic range of 20dB requires a channel with much much more dynamic range. Otherwise the gaps between the notes, or even the music's quieter parts, hug / drown in the channel noise.

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Here's the example I mentioned before:

2l50sacdtr01stereo96.jpg

FLAC 24/96 Britten: Simple Symphony, Op. 4 (source http://www.2l.no/)

11443112.png

(p.s. saving the plot cropped the original which went down to 69dB)

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This is not what is happening. The definition of dynamic range depends on the context.

When discussing music, DR means the difference between the loudest passage and the quietest passage, where a passage itself means something of a few seconds or more (i.e. the gaps between the notes don't count).

When discussing signal theory DR means the difference between the loudest signal a channel can pass, and the channel's noise floor. No information can exist below the noise floor.

The quality reproduction of a musical programme with, say, a dynamic range of 20dB requires a channel with much much more dynamic range. Otherwise the gaps between the notes, or even the music's quieter parts, hug / drown in the channel noise.

If you go back to Barnacle Bill's point, the implication of this is that he is correct:-

The 2L recording would have sounded just the same in 16 bit, except that the quantisation noise would be higher.

For the reasosn you have given it would not work in say 10 bit, where the noise level would become intrusive, but the 16 bit version should be indistinguishable especially with psycho-acoustically correct noise shaping. I believe that there have been several studies showing exaclty what BB says ie that a proper 16 bit downsampling (what is the right verb -down quantising?) would be indistinguishable and that the contrary has never been demonstrated.

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