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PinHead

Room treatment - fusk it, I give up

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Mr Cat wrote:

wickfut wrote:
be realistic.

Buy a used DEQ but don't actually have it in circuit.

Use it to position your speakers to the point that the DEQ hardly EQ's anything and then sell the thing on to some other clueless person.

yeah, I b ought one...spend ages finding out what cables I needed ( no one knew!*), then ages trying to set it up...one I knew what I was doing (well, possibly!) I then spent ages tweaking it... I gave up in the end and sold it on...

* this included getting info from a guy who modifies them for a living... :(

Thanks Mr Cat - this is painting the picture I imagined! Still be interested to try one 2nd hand if I could punt it on for not too much of a loss.

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GoodmorningPinhead - Do you know already what are the actual bass peaks at your listening position? If not before anything else I'd get these measured with a cheopo radio shack spl and a freebie bass tone cd (download from realtraps website etc). Once you have this info you can correctly attack improving the bass response which I guarentee will give you the most significant improvement in sound (more than treating the mids & highs).

Room acoustics can be pretty complicated especially when both/either speaker and listening position can not be located in their optimal room position. Both my speaker and listening position (especially listening pos) cant be located in my rooms optimal pos, for numerous reasons (mainly as doubles as familly living room)..

Over the years Ive done a lot of reading and tried quite a few different things (panels / bass traps / deq etc...)

After many trials and errorsIve personally found the best improvement in overall sound quality is to sort out the nasty bass peaks. No matter how you try and treat mids & highs with panels, if the lows are not sorted first they will still muddy everything else. Tried a few corner bass trap products but non touched my worst 50Hz peak at listening position so scrapped the lot and tried some eq....

I finally opted for a combination of P-eq (for lowend only), plus foam panels for mids and highs (located at first reflection points and behind listening position). The P-eq I own is set to treat onlya couple of low frequency peaks per channel.....but for me the difference / improvement by doing this correctly is MASSIVE. I could easilly live without the foam panels but could not live without the low-end eq.

All this is very speaker and room specific, but thats what I found.

I havnt had any experience of the beringer. but to keep things simple I'd do the measures by hand at listening pos, using a spl and test cd (making sure its either 'corrected' for the radioshack's low end results or the spl results are corrected afterwards.......theres info on this on the realtraps site). I would use the beringer to treat frequencies BELOW approx 300Hz only. Plus only treat a max of 3 low end peaks per channel (basically these would correspond to your rooms dimensions/mods). Your panels and room furniture will take care of things above this. You may well find that you only have just one peak down at the low end, but this may be +10db to + 20db at listening pos. As above I guarentee that if you eq this correctly (even ifyou only have 1 peak) this will give you an improvement over every frequency.

Good luck.

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I think the Ultracurve is a great bit of kit for the money. Much the best if you can insert it in a digitalsystem (say between CDP and DAC) as the A/D and D/A stages in it aren't as transparent as the rest.

It'll certainly help even out any gross anomalies, imo- I had a 15dB bass peak in-room on some speakers I used to have (Dali Skyline 1000) and the Behringer sorted it out very well.

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Jim wrote:

I have a Behringer DEQ which i don't use now, as i had some new speakers which with a bit of playing around with gave better results. The DEQ is a little gem for room eq. if you set it up right. It has to be done manually to get the best results, which is fairly tricky as the manual isn't very comprehensive. Done automatically you get some weird results. The object is to get a flat response while using a white noise generator, which is in the DEQ.

Spot on, imo. :^

... except rather than the onboard white noise generator I used a Stereophile Test CD.

Once you get the hang of it (after a couple of very frustrating hours) it's really quite easy to dial in whatever tonal balance you want.

I do know of some folks who just couldn't suss it out and gave up and sold it on without even getting to use it properly. Maybe it takes a twisted kind of mind to work it out! :D

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Morning Daz-b,

Yes, after cringing at a frequency sweep it was clear that I have a 50Hz (ish) hump, swiftly followed by a 60Hz (ish) dip - all but disappears! I know that treating a room for this is going to mean enormous bass traps that I'm simply not allowed :x Or more complex 'active' ones, but these are quite involved I think.

Thats why I'm interested in using some DEQ.

The upper frequencies and mids, however, have been cleaned up by the panels I made - less 'splashy'.

Thanks for your input - very useful!

Hi Jerry,

Thats encouraging to hear - as I mention above, there's a big wobble at 50 - 60Hz that I'm not going to do anything to with my feeble panels!

How is the DAC on the ultracurve? If it's half decent, that would be useful.

I think if I can pick one up reasonably 2nd hand, I'd be interested to give it a go. It does seem a hell of a piece of kit for not much dosh.

Although, like a couple of you have said, using white (or pink?) noise to set things up might be the best way forward, although I'm 'domestically' limited with speaker positioning!

And boy, do I get mocked after a few test tones - they just don't understand :D

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PinHead wrote:

Hi Jerry,

Thats encouraging to hear - as I mention above, there's a big wobble at 50 - 60Hz that I'm not going to do anything to with my feeble panels!

Yup, the Ultracurve will sort that no problem. :^

How is the DAC on the ultracurve? If it's half decent, that would be useful.

Yep, it's OK. I use it on my cassette deck at the moment (instead of using the Dolby button which dulls things way too much) and I certainly enjoy my music from it.

I have the same Usher speakers as you in my 2nd system - very nice. :)

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PinHead wrote:

wickfut wrote:
be realistic.

Buy a used DEQ but don't actually have it in circuit.

Use it to position your speakers to the point that the DEQ hardly EQ's anything and then sell the thing on to some other clueless person.

yes, thats a good way of looking at it. Finding some one just as clueless as me might be tricky though...

I would say give the DEQ Ultracurve a go, it is also available with "audiophile upgrades" somewhere.

Considering the price and specification and it's capabilities and "play with" factor you get a lot out of it for a modest outlay, even just by using it to see what your system may be doing, and learning to use it will only give you more knowledge on how your system and room interact. So even if you do not keep it and sell it at a loss you may still have gained something.

I am sure it will sell on easilly enough if you don't find it usefull, and you will find there are as many clued up people who can get a performance or improvement out of one of these boxes as there are that can't.

Never know if you sell it on cheap enough I may buy it LOL

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PinHead wrote:

wickfut wrote:
be realistic.

Buy a used DEQ but don't actually have it in circuit.

Use it to position your speakers to the point that the DEQ hardly EQ's anything and then sell the thing on to some other clueless person.

yes, thats a good way of looking at it. Finding some one just as clueless as me might be tricky though...

I'll buy it, how much you looking for :nuts:

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