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rockmeister

Room treatment

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Good post this, as Im working on improving room acoustics as my new little project. My room also doubles as the familly living room. Room is rectangle approx 3.5x5. I have to fire the speakers across the shorter width of the room and my listening position is v.close to the rear wall. As cant reposition furniture or speakers been first working on taming the bass. Done a number of tests to check bass response at listening position. No mass large bass traps aloud so I went down the parametric eq route and purchased a rives parc eq unit. Its totally cured my bass 'boom' issues.

My 2nd task is with taming the mids & highs. Been looking for ages at numerous foam based panels that not only perform well but also look good in our room. Finally decided on some vicoustic panels. Not the 'best' performers out there (according to data Ive read) but pretty dam decent, but look great and thats the compromise for me and the missus. Ive got on order a number of their 'wave wood' panels and their 'cinema round premium' panels. Looking to treat the front wall(behind speakers), rear wall, ceiling and one side wall (cant do other cos its a patio bay window area). Good thing about these as the missus can get involved and make some cool looking shapes out of the panelsby mixing and matching types and position/oriontation. Will start to receivesome of the panels tomorrow.

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looks nice... let us know how they sound... have you got a way of room measuring before and after?

wave-wood_300suhefasori.JPG

JJ

edit - anyone remember the name of the company that makes the 'borg' diffusers?

10.jpg

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jonjin wrote:

how about cd rack with randomly inserted cds, ie not full shelves... that way they might diffract more...

edit - typos/clarification

Yes, that would be better, will promote a more random scatter, but probably not that beneficial to the overallsound . Like all these options you need to know what the problem is and then go for the best method of resolution. Again, having the Shed gives me a large degree of freedom so I can try various options.Also, because I don't have to worry about the appearance (within reason)I'm happy to use studio (cheaper) products than domestic ones, with the "looks pretty" premium added on.

Actually the rooms a real mess at the moment as I've got out a load of photographic studio reflector panels, canvas backgrounds and equipement to sell.These are all leaning against the back wall (oposite the listening position)where I intend to add the foam tiles and I have to saythe room/system hasnever sounded better.

Paul

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Just a couple of add on thoughts.....

I really like Cardas math for speaker placement for a room that is rectangular.

You don't have to always fire down the length of the room. It is perfectly OK to put speakers on the long wall in a near field configuration and treat the wall behind your head. It is great for cone speakers because it reduces if not eliminates first wall reflections. Very excellent imaging actually, if you can stand the front row presentation.

Planar's have a different disperertion and its less critical to treat the first reflection.

You guys in the UK can now get GIK Acoustic products and they now have litho art on some of their products which is very high WAF.

Another important part of speaker and room interaction is the floor. Suspended wood floors, decouple of the speakers. Concrete floor, couple them with spikes. Big impact on image smearing and bass response.

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bmckenney wrote:

Just a couple of add on thoughts.....

I really like Cardas math for speaker placement for a room that is rectangular.

You don't have to always fire down the length of the room. It is perfectly OK to put speakers on the long wall in a near field configuration and treat the wall behind your head. It is great for cone speakers because it reduces if not eliminates first wall reflections. Very excellent imaging actually, if you can stand the front row presentation.

Planar's have a different disperertion and its less critical to treat the first reflection.

You guys in the UK can now get GIK Acoustic products and they now have litho art on some of their products which is very high WAF.

Another important part of speaker and room interaction is the floor. Suspended wood floors, decouple of the speakers. Concrete floor, couple them with spikes. Big impact on image smearing and bass response.

www.realtraps.com

www.gikacoustics.com

I like the 38 percent rule, personally, as referenced on realtraps site..

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all good stuff. I posted just to get a discussion going that was positive about ways forward, so job done there I hope.

Re firing across the room. Yes I have to too, but the reason my basic guide suggests otherwise is simple maths. Most of us live in ordinary houses. If we are lucky, room width is around 12ft. Remove 4 of those to put the seating on the 2/3rds point, and bring the speakers out say 2ft to avoid excess bass, and you are 6 ft from the speakers, which then need to be 6' apart. At that size of triangle imaging will suffer as will soundstaging IME, so the proportions always work better using the longer length if you can. I agree about 1st point reflectors being less critical if your speakers are miles away from the side walls, but you'd need a VERY large room before they became irrelevant.

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Interesting thread that has got me thinking about the position of my speaks, and what i can do behind them as they're rear firing.

Re decoupling, or coupling, or whatever it is, I found putting two concrete slabs below my stands, on a suspended wooden floor, helped a great deal.

time for some lugging around and playing. That said i'm pretty limited by the great big wood burning stove that sticks out into the room by a couple of feet or so.

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I converted the cellar as a "music room" (sad I know)- and tried both firing the "long" way and the "short". In the end, prefered the short, as I could have the speakers wider apart. The room is treated with bass traps, and difffusers at 1st reflection, acoustic foam behind the spks and also behind the listening position. The rear wall also has heavy curtain runnning the full length (hiding the panels). Treating the room gave the biggest pound/value upgrade I've ever experienced.

Also - if you have your system in between the speakers, try covering it with a duvet or similar to check the reflections from the equipment and stand.. Brings everything in focus a little better.

Also - if you can put the system where you have a solid floor... makes a huge difference! anything with floorboards IMHO tends to "sing" with the system and add all mannerof bass harmonics.

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Stupinder wrote:

Interesting thread that has got me thinking about the position of my speaks, and what i can do behind them as they're rear firing.

Re decoupling, or coupling, or whatever it is, I found putting two concrete slabs below my stands, on a suspended wooden floor, helped a great deal.

time for some lugging around and playing. That said i'm pretty limited by the great big wood burning stove that sticks out into the room by a couple of feet or so.

post pics of your room, eh?

perhaps I can offer some suggestions.

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Received my first few panels (from vicoustic) yesterday: 8 x cinema round panels and 2 x wave wood panels. Their very light and are 'stuck' to walls via a supplied vicoustic 'flexi glue'.

Last night, put 2 x cinema panels behind each speaker (slightly to the insde of each speaker). Then using 2 x cinema panels and 2 x wave woods made a large cool looking arty-farty square which has been stuck to the right side-wall (covering the 1st reflection point).

Im now waiting for a few more panels to arrive, to carryout further sticking and treatment.

Sorry JJ - just seen your earlier post, havnt measured frq responsethis time to do exact before and after comparison.

Although Ive only completed half of my little project, I can aleady hear that things are changing/improving for the better. One noticable point that didnt expect is that the music sounds faster (prob because Im now missing a few reflection at the listening position)

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Tried to post pics of room but to no avail -interweb died half way through uploading to photobucket and i cant be arsed again.

so with no phone to dial out I thought i'd have a bash at a couple of panel thingies.

Well my woodworking skills being zero and being somewhat financially emmarassed this week i had to make do with what i had around.

A length of old skirting board (bought ages ago and left in the back room), some little nails, a bow saw and some sheets of glassfibre board with silver paper on the outside (these were "skip finds" and were left over from when making a little pen for some chicks we had)

Welll anhour later I have 1 panel which looks .......ok. I need to get some acceptable fabric to cover it but it looks like the ones i've seen on the web so i'm happy. i'll build another, perhaps in a year or two if past diy efforts are anything to go by, and let you know how I get on sound wise.

With just the sheets of fibreglass in the corners behing the speaks and listening to Massive attack remixed by mad professor the immediate thing was that the big reverb splashes are "tighter" and its all a bit more focused. Of course i may well be imagining this ;-) but it's kept me occupied for an afternoon.

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Maybe my dedicated room can give you a few hints.

This is whats hiding behind the speakers/curtain: subwoofer/basstraps/broadband absorbers.

IMGP4428_fix.jpg

Finding a placement for the sub were a pain in the...

IMGP4426_fix.jpg

When everthing is were it should it looks like this

helbild1.jpg

Michael

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